Christine Fuessel, editor of The Impact Lawyers Magazine, had the pleasure to conduct a phone interview with Chrissie Lightfoot. Chrissie is a prominent international legal figure, being a qualified solicitor (now non-practising) and an inspirational global award winning entrepreneur. She is also known for being one of the world´s top female legal futurists, legal technologist, LawTech investor, as well as a best-selling author, writer, consultant, advisor, event chairwoman/ host and keynote speaker. Chrissie is CEO and founder of EntrepreneurLawyer Ltd (a global consulting company) and Robot Lawyer Lisa Limited. She is the visionary and creator of Robot Lawyer LISA – the world´s first impartial AI lawyer – which is the subject of the following interview.  

What are the characteristics and the main functions of LISA? 

Where to start? Well the idea stemmed from the need to create a legal product solution in the marketplace that would negate the use of human lawyers by clients on both sides of a contract, as there was nothing like that out in the market a few years ago. LISA was, is, the world’s first bilateral and impartial robot lawyer. 

Obviously, a lot of document automation and form filling is unilateral, with documents being drafted from one client side only. So the idea was to create a bilateral product, whereby one lay person or businessperson would draft a contract with the aid of robot lawyer LISA, being supported with both legal and commercial guidance within the machine system as they work through drafting their own document between themselves. Once the initiator has created the first draft, they send it to the receiver and that receiver, being another lay person or businessperson, will have a look at the document and then use LISA to help them to ‘negotiate’ and make any required amendments. If the receiver didn´t agree with the first draft, then he/she can alter it. When (s)he has made the changes, they send it back to the initiator. Both parties receive copies of the initial draft and final draft. 

So as you can see the app is bilateral – but it´s also objective, impartial and transparent. LISA also begins in the middle ground to help the parties negotiate and come to an agreement as swiftly as possible.  What we are trying to do is negate time and costs. Using LISA obliterates two sets of time and two sets of costs that are usually involved by taking out the human lawyers that would traditionally act for each client on either side independently. The Robot Lawyer LISA platform enables its user to create legally binding agreements with another party, together, and empowers the parties involved to find a middle ground as quickly and cost effectively as possible. Because LISA is a machine she can act for both sides when creating an agreement, whereas a human lawyer cannot advise or act for both parties. This is rather unique.  

The whole premise of our Robot Lawyer Lisa was to give the majority of the marketplace - the 80% that is being neglected by the legal profession - a solution that is fair, affordable, understandable, easily accessible, convenient and jargon-free. 

Regarding the tools of LISA, which important tools are there? 

We have four tools that sit on an AI (Artificial Intelligence) platform at the moment. First of all, we have the NDA app (non-disclosure agreement, also known as a confidentiality agreement), which is free, so we encourage anybody anywhere in the world to use this app .It doesn´t matter whether the user is a lay person who has got a great idea and is determined to protect their initial working ideas and documents, or a small business owner, or a GC (General Counsel) who might want to use this in their business for a variety of reasons and matters.  

For the contract tools we use English law and the jurisdiction of England, but that hasn´t prevented the NDA from being used all over the world. Although we are based in the UK, the NDA contract tool is currently being used by lay people and business people in over 125 countries throughout the world, who have visited our website and then used the app to create the NDA and then send it to and negotiate with another lay person or business person sometimes located elsewhere in the world. To give an example, the initiator might be in Europe, and the recipient could be in the USA; the location does not matter. The NDA app can be used, has been used, and is regularly used between people in different countries throughout the world, including third world countries.  

And then we have three property contract tools: a business lease (also known as a commercial lease), a residential lease (also known as a shorthold tenancy agreement) and a lodger agreement.  

LISA´s business lease tool is perfect for landlords who are looking to rent out a business property, and for business tenants who need premises for their business. The commercial lease itself is a very complex document, but we have managed to make it extremely easy to use and draft for our clients. For example, we have agents in an Estate Agent´s office drafting a commercial lease on behalf of their landlord client. Here, we have taken the human lawyer involvement out of the process. The agent liaises with his/her landlord client and then also the tenant in relation to the agreed ‘heads of terms’ (HoT), so he/she will then actually draft the commercial lease to make sure that the lease matches the HoT that the landlord and the tenant have ultimately agreed on in relation to the property that´s going be rented.  

Our residential lease tool can be used by landlords (e.g. residential property owners and property entrepreneurs) who would like to rent out an apartment or house, and tenants who are looking to rent a home.  

And finally, we have the lodger agreement app (also known as a room licence agreement), which is ideal if a householder wants to rent out a room in their house and a lodger (e.g. a student or a worker away from their main home) is looking for a convenient solution for renting a room.  

These are the four tools we have at the moment. We wanted to focus on the Real Estate Sector to begin with because when we looked at the trends in how people are going to live, move around, and work in the next decade and beyond, the research, reports, trends and predictions revealed an increasing number of people are going to lodge and rent property. Also, over the past few years the length of the term of commercial leases in the UK – when businesses move in and out of premises – is consistently falling; the average length of the term of a commercial lease being 3 to 4 years currently. With the regulatory framework and environment we have in the UK, Robot Lawyer LISA can empower users to draft their own high quality and legally binding commercial lease for a term up to 3 years without the need for any human lawyer involvement. So, the vast majority of the marketplace wouldn´t need to include a solicitor in this process. As a company we involve a human solicitor where the term goes beyond 3 years to work with the client and/or user and to comply with the regulations.  

In which countries do you have the biggest demand for LISA? 

A large percentage is based in the UK, because, after all, it is English law and jurisdiction and the property apps in particular relate to properties that are situated in England and Wales. But, as I mentioned earlier, we have users of our NDA tool (the confidential agreement app) from all corners of the earth, some of whom are based in Australia, New Zealand, Scandinavia, many countries in Europe, Africa, South America, Canada and in the USA. It is used anywhere and everywhere by a whole range of people in a variety of nations. We are also delighted to have repeat users as well, from different countries. Understandably, there are also, many people who are curious and wish to test the app as part of their course-work, like university students, or innovators and entrepreneurs who want to check the app out as an alternative to other options in the marketplace. 

Who are the main clients for LISA?  

For the NDA it is mainly businesses – any type or size of business, any type of entrepreneur, or student, in any sector. There is not really a limit on who is the customer, client or user. Our NDA app can be used in all sectors and industries.  

For the property tools, our main clients are Estate Agents and private landlords.  

To sum it up: what are the main advantages of LISA?  

LISA is great value for time and money. You can’t beat a price tag of free for this quality of NDA tool or significantly reduced cost for a complex commercial lease of this calibre and quality, particularly when it is at your finger-tips 24/7/365. LISA is also transparent, impartial, objective and fair; she goes straight to the heart of the matter, the middle ground, so that the parties get a deal as quickly as possible with reduced costs, reduced time and no adversarial input from any human lawyers whatsoever. 

Are there any disadvantages of using LISA?  

The disadvantages regarding the property related products are that they are only suitable for properties in England and Wales currently, because they are based on the law of England and Wales.   

Also, with the commercial lease, a human solicitor will be needed to have some part in the process, even if it´s just a quick check-through, if the length of the term of the lease is greater than 3 years, due to the UK´s regulatory system which classes leases of more than 3 years as a reserved activity. We have human solicitors that work with us when required.  

For example, if Robot Lawyer LISA was being used to  draft a commercial lease with a term of five years by an individual landlord or an Estate Agent, we would engage the services of a a human solicitor to ensure the integrity of the output document and to comply with the regulatory framework. And that´s all included in the price of the product. So, it´s not really a disadvantage for the user, it just makes it more problematic for us as a company, as there are more steps in the process to make it as seamless and swift as possible whilst being compliant.  

We are hopeful that at some point in the future, the regulatory framework may shift, because a commercial lease of this nature is a very low-risk activity. But we remain in the hands of the regulatory system and framework of the UK for the time being so we must work within that.  

In terms of data protection – how do you control the flow and the security of the data that is generated through the app? 

The system uses and collects data inputs from the data fields (obviously this has to happen otherwise the document would not surface i.e. be created) and that data sits on the server of the platform provider that we contract with. Unless we specifically request the data, or a user does, we do not see or keep/store the data. We do not see or store the output documents either; that sits squarely with the user. We comply with all data protection laws, security regulations and matters, and act with integrity.  

We have a chain of contracts between the platform supplier and our company and our intermediaries and our users in relation to data protection, privacy and security. So, for example, if a user wanted to access their data (fields content) they may make a request to the intermediary (Estate Agent), who would then make a request to our company, and then we would need to make a request to our platform provider to supply that data. In essence, we would have to go down the chain to where the data actually sits, aka, with the platform provider. We are compliant, supportive and secure at every stage. 

How did you come up with the idea of LISA? 

I used to be a solicitor myself, and came to be rather frustrated and dismayed with the way many solicitors work. Sometimes it´s the adversarial way that solicitors behave that actually prolongs getting to a deal for the parties involved, because it´s a battle of the egos between two solicitors –  you know, “fighting for points” and what needs to go in and out of a document and such. Having practised as a solicitor, but also being a buyer of legal services as an entrepreneur, I came to realize that there are only a handful of tricky and sticky negotiation issues, that solicitors actually need to fight over for their clients.  

So the idea of creating LISA came with the realisation that in order to cut the time and costs in this adversarial toing and froing “why don´t you cut to the chase and get straight to the middle ground” – instead of starting as far apart as you can and then come to a middle point, where you know that your client and the opposite side want to make a deal. Part of the characteristics of LISA is that we start in the middle ground. If you had a great base document, you start where you know the parties are likely going to end up. Experience teaches you that. 

So the idea came about in terms of asking myself “what are the main barriers for two parties to get to a deal as quickly as possible?” And then I thought that in order to get an actual self-help product to work effectively it´s not only necessary to cut out one lawyer, by empowering or enabling one businessperson to draft something for themselves, but that you really need to make sure that once it comes to the other side, they can do the same, that is, not involve a human lawyer either. If you involve any human lawyer in the system, there will be problems; they are likely to drive up cost and delay matters. And so, that is how and why I came up with the idea that the process needed to be bilateral negating both human lawyers from the process. It´s something that I felt in my gut – thinking and standing in the shoes of a legal buyer. I asked myself, “how would you feel about it, how would you want it to work”, and then I asked a whole load of other people too. 

I like to compare the eureka moment with a matchbox: you can have two strike sides or just one strike side – or instead you get rid of the matchbox entirely and just have a gas lighter, if you know what I mean (laughs). The idea is that you need to get rid of both sides (two lawyers) and provide an alternative to truly reduce the time and the cost. 

And then, obviously, we needed to prove the concept that two lay people or two businesspeople would trust the system and have the confidence to draft something bilaterally with it being transparent to the other side, and then the recipient would actually do that as well. So, we needed to prove that the behaviour change in users is possible and there is a need and a demand out there. After having operated for the last few years with the NDA, it´s becoming increasingly obvious that there is a marketplace for such tools. And the same is true for the property tools as well. With  Estate agents and Landlords that are starting to use it, there is definitely a market there, and a real appetite to work in this way.  

There are now research reports that say that a large percentage of people do trust technology and are willing to work in this kind of way. We are still pioneering at the front of the curve but I believe that behaviour change from the user´s side will improve over time. Also, intermediaries like the Estate Agents that were very reserved at first, are becoming more comfortable with the idea and process. Progress is going to be a marathon and not a sprint. It’s still early days for LISA as a disruptor.  

But you know, that´s the challenge associated with being a pioneering “out of the trap first” kind of company. I have every confidence that within the next five to ten years the use of DIY, self-help, legal AI tools will be the norm, the mainstream, and that there will be a shift from a unilateral way of doing things to a bilateral way.